Guild Merge

[Stronker :)]

Morning everyone

I am Stronker the Guild Master of Excellency. Pve raiding guid of alonsus. After a detailed discussion between me and kardas we have discussed the idea of a guild merge. Both of our guilds are progressing well in the 10man area of uldaur but the 25man is becoming a challenge. There arnt many guildless active and dedicated raiders left on alonsus and this is the perfect oppurtunity for us to create a new era and contest with the top guilds of alonsus. The ideas of this merge have been discussed and in excellency we are in need of officers me and thorzy are leading it pretty much by ourselves. The officers of Aranoch wil become officers of excellency if this merge happens. This can be a big help for the guild. As far as the raid goes, Aranoch people can take there own 10man team if needed when in excellency as the team you have now is going well and excellency can lead the same. Then them 2 teams can merge into that 25man area, take the geared and skilled people left in the guild and down the Yoggsaron on 25man and show the top guilds of alonsus that were the new boys in town.

Thankyou for your time and i hope to hear from you and your acceptance to create the new best guild on alonsus.

Stronker

Guildmaster Of Excellency

[Arkadi]

Hi there Stronker,

I think you raise a valid point about there being any guild-less actives and dedicated raiders. Other than the few that have joined us recently the applications we have received have been woefully low and would require significant gearing up for them to really benefit us as raiders.

From the sounds of things you are in exactly the position we were in when we were members of Noctivagus. I.e. not enough sign-ups for 25 man despite having the numbers in your guild for it. Looking at the Armoury, I can see you have 71 level 80 characters as members. Are most of these alt players or unique accounts? If unique then this is one thing which would put me off joining personally as there would effectively be too much competition for spots within raids. I would much rather be a member of a guild which didn't overfill their ranks as it has all sorts of benefits. Generally closer as a guild, more loot for the few, better team working skills as you have played with each other more. These are to name but a few.

At the moment Aranoch seems to have a definite drive to succeed which is another thing which I wouldn't want to see disappear. As a new up and coming guild we have all the 'word of mouth' advantages and none of the baggage.

If indeed you are in the same position as we were in might I suggest you follow what we did as it really does seem to have worked. Starting afresh I mean. Get 'rid of the chaff' so to speak. God knows we need the numbers so I am sure there would be a place for you.

That's just me personally, I haven't spoken to any of the other officers. So I don't know what they think about it. Bottom line is I will follow wherever these guys go as not only are they good friends they are bloody good raiders too. What we have in this guild is something quite rare I think.

Thanks
Arka

[Dasime]

SOO are you saying we /gdisband then all apply to your guild?
Officers in Aranoch get instant promotion and people who are just raider ranks go in under all your people in Excellency?

I am just wondering; because I like to think all of us in Aranoch had an input into the guilds rules and regs to make sure we got the systems just right. If we all go into Excellency some of us will just go in as place fillers on the 25man, losing our Ulduar10 places to people in your guild and just waiting out for the chance we get to come in on 25man - then we finally get in and have no DKP vs all your raiders who have tonns from previously raiding so we just get creamed on all the items.

I know this is how it would work joining any other guild and thats why we made our own, so we can progress though the raiding content on our terms.

Dasime
Just some Raider in Aranoch

[Elethiomel]

I have to agree with Arkadi. By starting again with Aranoch it did effectively kill Noctivagus as a raiding guild, but Noctivagus was never going to change gear; it was heading down the slope with increasing momentum. A clean break is probably the only solution for a guild in a similar situation, and so I wouldn't personally be in favour of a merger.

The other reason I'd be reluctant to support such a move is the reduced input Aranoch members would have. I've experienced a guild merger in the past where I went from GM of a small PvP guild to being an officer in a slightly larger 10 man raiding guild. When the first schism occurred between the new and old members, it ended badly for all concerned, and it's an experience I'm not eager to repeat.

[Elethiomel]

Das makes a valid point regarding DKP. I think in the interests of fairness, if such a move were to go ahead, you'd have to reset your DKP system entirely from the point all the new members joined. Yet another reason why starting fresh with a new guild is a better idea.

[Tashabasha]

I'm going to be a gigantic ass on this, and say no I understand the problems Excellency are going through, but the reason I left nocti was to become something I felt a part of right from the beginning.

Whilst I would like to help Excellency raid and do well, I'm also going to be extremely selfish and say that I like everything that Aranoch stands for and I don't want to see that change. Like arka says, I also think we have something rare and good going on in this guild, and if I were asked to change it, I think I would rather just leave.

A very un-eloquent and rather girly response but thats me And I'm prepared to be shouted at for it!

Tasha

[Stronker :)]

yep guys i see what every single one of you are saying and like i said all the competition has gone from excellency. And i said you could carry on ur great 10man team in ulduar 10 man in our guild.

Regarding dkp i am willing to discuss between the leaders of aranoch and excellency and im sure we can make something happen. With the guild merge thing i have experinced good and bad but like this with experienced and mature members it can work

Stronker
Guildmaster of excellency

[Mertissielle]

I've also discussed this with Kardas briefly and I think I speak for the majority of our officers when I say we'd be reluctant to disband Aranoch at this time. While your proposal makes absolute sense from the perspective of getting into 25-man content, Aranoch represents something fairly special to a lot of us who were founding members - we broke away from our home and from people we were close to in order to try and do it by ourselves. What makes it all the more so is that this happened shortly after a great number of us met up in real life for a weekend in the Southern Netherlands. We are, at heart, a group of friends trying to make this work.

While we'd still get to raid together, get to hang out with each other, get to be with some truly excellent players (of which Excellency has no shortage) what I think we would all miss is the sense of having done it ourselves, from the ground up.

Logically, your proposal makes the most sense and it's not without its temptations, but emotionally I think we have a number of folk who are very invested in this guild and that would probably prove too hard to move away from, at least for the foreseeable future.

I realise this may not be the response you were looking for from us and please don't think we haven't considered it - but just as yourself and Thorzy have a lot invested in the wellbeing of Excellency, we too have people who are passionate about ensuring that Aranoch succeeds and I think that, for the time being at least, you may find some resistance to the idea, especially from our group of founding members.

I don't doubt you could find a home here should some of you wish to join and, subject to Kardas' decision, I also think there would be room amongst our Officer ranks for some of you, but I can't see a way in which we could merge into your guild at this present time.

Perhaps I can propose that in the interim we remain as seperate guilds but have a joint 25-man team made up of members from each group? There's no reason we couldn't set up a new DKP pool that covers both guilds when we are together in this fashion and we could do this with some regularity, at least until one or the other of us gets back to having our own regular 25-man attempts. I think having some kind of agreement whereby we ran Ulduar-25 several times per week as two guilds working together would provide a soultion (albeit a temporary one) to both our issues. What say you?

[Arkadi]

I was just gonna suggest this too Mert. At least then we both would see some of the 25 man content.

[Dasime]

At the rate applications are coming in now, I wouldn't be surprised if we had our first 25man within weeks, defiantly before the end of the month.
I wouldn't see much point in creating a pool exclusively for 3lockouts tops.

I like Merts idea (or what I understood from Merts) of a reversed suggestion where you and your people get into our guild. I know this is probably not what you would want as you disband Excellency for it but that's the position we are being put into by your current offer.

Afterall, Excellency would make an amazing name for a personal bank guild.

[Sangomas]

Ok here come's the bitch

First of all i dont like the idea of merging aranoch. We have build up aranoch in the past few weeks and it is a group of friends. I would not change that for the world and will keep doing it this way aswell.
As most of the others have already stated / showed we dont feel like it.

Now for the idea's that have risen that exelency would join us, also a big no. It is the same format as the other way around. As eleth said eventually u will get a clove between the former 2 guilds and a break. ive seen that happen so many times.

Also everyone that wants to join us must apply on the website and they only get in if they match the rules that we set. If they dont its to bad for them, but no spot.

We made aranoch with certain expectations and we should not let those strict rules losen by any means.

Personally i have set my mind already long time ago. If our group falls apart / aranoch disband im leaving wow for good.
Our friendships is what makes the game special and fun to play.

[Tashabasha]

I wholeheartedly agree Cuth. This guild is made up of my friends and is one of the two reasons I left nocti (the other being raiding). If aranoch disbands its game over for me too.

[Don Ravorin]

/cheer /clap for Cuth!

Well said there lad! I couldn't agree more.

[Mertissielle]

As this is the public part of the forum I guess there's no real "permission" as such, but I have personally brought this issue up in the Officers' Forum because while I don't think any harm was meant by this post and that it's as much our fault for not "bringing it to the masses" ourselves quicker, I do think it's unfortunate that this proposal was brought to our members in this way and would obviously have preferred that we discuss it as a group.

It was brought up on Vent last night at one point after the raid and there's certainly not been any move to deliberately hide it from folk on our part, I must say that I'd likely have preferred that discussion continue between Mith and Thorzy/Stronker for the time being until we felt that the core issues were at least addressed.

All the same, I still think there is scope in a joint approach as a temporary solution should people be willing to discuss this. I take your point about the DKP Das, but we could even just have a joint loot council of sorts of run effectively on a gentleman's agreement along the lines of "well you took the last one so I'll take the next one". Even if it is only for three lockout periods, having the option for people to opt-in to off-night 25-mans could work for those willing and able to attend.

I think the weight of feeling behind Aranoch neither disbanding or merging into Excellency is now quite apparent however. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn to suggest that maybe we should draw a line under that particular idea and instead focus on any joint-guild activities that might be more palatable to both groups, even if it's just an occasional fun run of Naxx-25 or something.

[Mithrawndo]

Time for me to jump into this thread I think.

When Thorzy first raised this proposition with me, I promised that I would take it to my officers. I came back to Thorzy the following day having received a unanimous decision from the officer's forum that we would not entertain the idea of abandoning what we have created and what in such a short time has been so successful.

I feel that you misunderstood me when we briefly spoke yesterday Stronker. I made the situation quite plain to Thorzy, and I (wrongly) assumed that you had spoken to him about this. As such, let me speak on behalf of my guild to make this 100% clear to you:

Aranoch will not merge into another guild.

When I spoke with you before I logged off for the night, I suggested you bring your proposal to our forums. This was based on the conversation I had earlier that night with Thorzy, which intimated that there was a distinct possibility that because of the problems Excellency has been suffering from recently and because they've been unable to find fresh blood, that it could spell the end for your guild. As such, when I sent you to our forums I was under the impression that you realised this, and that you were coming here with the intention of proposing your raiders merge into our guild, or that we collaborate on 25 mans whilst we try to grow, and you try to save your guild.

Clearly this isn't something you've even considered, and so I think it best that we simply draw a line under this. Cuth and others have said all that needs to be said from our side, but I felt I needed to clarify our situation.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do, and I genuinely do hope that it works out for Excellency. If not, you know where to find us and we'd be happy to receive applications from your members should the worst happen.